Family stories often have some truth in them but get distorted as generations go by. There is a slot for a birth record say in Jan Feb to 3rd March 1781 for another born unto John Staines and Alice Vandebaize. John (jnr) is beyond doubt the same one in the 1841 Census, which gives his place of birth in Middlesex, living in Edward St with a date of birth in the 18th century and he comes from a silk weaving family with an 18th century footprint in Middlesex. It is also doubtful and problematic because his widow Charlotte and/or John have grossly falsified their ages in the Edward St Census for 1841. I had always thought a surname beginning with Gold was more than likely Jewish. There are instances of a child born and given the mother’s or father’s name but not surviving infancy or early childhood and thereafter another is so named. Hanshe is not a Dutch name. You have done so much and provided an unbelievable amount of information and help. Each household got a form to fill out and each household then was left to interpret how to fill out the form. It also appears to be derived from some other naming variation. So in that event the firstborn John W would not have survived infancy or early childhood. In addition there is a James Staines b1811 in Stepney who I am unable to trace to any family and comes from a census record that does not match but I note he was a silk weaver. Hi Ken Another in Charlotte Staines’s household in 1841 is Martha Butterworth and she marries Samuel’s brother George a boot maker in the last quarter of 1852. Hello Yvette One is from his marriage to Alice Vandebaize in 1775 and the other is from his daughter Ann’s marriage to James Dwight in 1816 in St John, Hackney. Walloons spoke old French, which had Latin routes whereby the prefix “de” might go before the surname. The first relates to a John Staines b March 1780-March 1781. This is because the ones chosen for the reference group are intensively analysed using correlation techniques. A very common Dutch surname meaning ‘son of Philip.’ The name Philip comes from the Greek word ‘Philippos’ meaning ‘friends of horses.’ 89. What is the history of the family surname America? This is a very interesting subject. The Dutch naming legislation allows nearly all given names unless they are too similar to an existing surname, or if the name is inappropriate. Frances is later recorded in 1861 as a manufacturer. VISIT OUR HOME PAGE - 22 May 1831, St Mary Islington. The suggested John Steines (as a brother of Francis Staines) would be the oldest son by 9 years and yet he isn’t engaged or trained in this highly specialised and better earning skill only the much younger son. That born unto John and Mary in November in 1781 is also considered to be too young. Charles Vandebaize and Martha’s estimated marriage date is around 1750, first born Philip 1751, and that would make Martha around 19-20 years old when she got married. It is the culmination of a lot of exhaustive analysis and overall is pointing at a Vandebaize ancestry but with a low-moderate level of confidence. One can reasonably conclude that there were Vanden Steen or Stein who were or had married into a number of French speaking families and went to the Walloon church. Because my footprint back into the Spanish Netherlands is likely to be much earlier one therefore might expect it to be weaker or further below the 0.1 % reporting threshold. It suggests that Hetty’s parents are John and Hannah Pond in Iver, Buckinghamshire and are doing what most grandparents do, helping out. It is fully acknowledged that this does not offer the certainty that would otherwise arise from a record that contained the surname Vandebaize as a witness or a middle name say in a record. I can trace my ancestors back to around 1600 in De Beemster, a polder to the North of Amsterdam, where most people with the name Konijn originate from and most of them are Catholic. Supposedly they were migrating there from Ireland. The last residence stated for the 1844 burial is Edward St Bethnal Green, which is now Kerbala St and is only a stone’s throw from St Matthew which is also where all three children born unto John widower and Charlotte Butterworth were baptised and christened. The possibility that there could be three parents providing records over this period, each with parents names John Staines and Alice is daunting although it was not unusual for any couple to bear 16 births but over a shorter time span. In those cases it nearly always refers to a certain, often quite distant, ancestor's place of origin or residence; for example, Ludwig van Beethoven "from Bettenhoven" and Rembrandt van Rijn "from the Rhine". I am trying to find out more about my dutch ancestors (last name is Hanshe). And it is the same moral insanity that has given rise to both our ancestral stories in the Netherlands, across France and then into merry England. So either spouse would be 23 years or 19-20 years of age when they got married. The best way to find out where your family name comes from is to research your direct male line backwards to find the first person who used the name. My mother is convinced that her grandmother’s maiden name “Bird” has Holland Dutch ancestry. If one also follows the father’s occupation then that could lead to a number of major cities in Flanders- Antwerp, Bruges, Ghent and Tournai which were skilled at gun making. Fair blonde blue eyed outcomes could be due to danish viking ancestry in the Netherlands or a Moorish Scandinavian ancestry. Usage: Language + Letters. Muscatine, Iowa was just a ferry ride from Illinois. (Dove is also dialect Flemish Dutch for dove…). And his choice for a Church wedding at St George The Martyr in Southwark would certainly impress any patriotic Master Weaver whom he was dependent on for his work and daily sustenance. One of the witness names was recorded as Nasar Baissier and not Nassar. Van Doozer is another situation. For the cousin’s family Benjamin-Esther the group of children is Benjamin 1816, Charles 1817, Louisa 1819, Edwin Vandeboeze 1821, George 1824 and Henry 1825. Lets compare notes – e-mail me at It has become apparent that a quite few are building trees as numbers game and without any regard to the bona fides of what is being attached to these trees. It is a common misconception that the Dutch … So in addition to all the other factors this fuzziness is likely to be very different down different branches of the tree. And similarly there is Joos Vanden Steen in London being granted a letter of denization from the King of Spain in 1583. This post is below the other two and is dated 5th January 2020. Can be of Celtic, Anglo or old French Norman origin. Neither the groom nor bride appears to be living in Stepney. It would be reasonable to conclude that one cannot create ethnicity out of thin air but reliance on the current methodology risks doing that also because of mutations and false correlations. James Staines 36 Butcher Y I have several Huguenot ancestors from Zeeland myself. Submitted names are contributed by users of this website. You will need more than just a name to find out where your ancestors lived. When Napoleon and the French occupied the Netherlands, they required the Dutch to create surnames for taxation and census purposes. The burial record for a John Staines in Bethnal Green in 1844 gives a place of death as Edward St, which is just 2 short block widths west of St Matthew. Huguenots were Nobles, Doctors, Lawyers, Historians, Intellectuals, Craftsman and Artisans and loyal to the Crown. ), michelius Johannus Steynmets 1198-1226. It is not only property, and lives but heritage, history and records that go up in smoke. I am 8 generations away and think you are too. Even brief, informal answers would really help me. Of course, the clerk may have transcribed what he heard. This has enabled me to raise the confidence level to a moderate rating and above 50%. There is a birth record using a search tool for St Pancras Middlesex Dec 1835, for George Thomas Staines with father James mother Esther. Firstly there are 13 DNA autosomal matches for the name Butterworth not 34. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. So my ancestor may in fact be Anglo-Saxon or Anglo-Norman. Therefore one should not be too put off that no match came it, because it is really a hit and miss affair and it looks like the odds were firmly stacked against it. So what you see with these methods is more like the top layer but there are other older layers underneath anyway. A marriage record for James & Esther would help raise one’s confidence and point to the rest of this family upstream. It was in the context of using DNA ethnicity results from two individuals to see if this pointed to a common GGGGG Grandparent. I don’t have a spouse for him. So modern borders don’t really tell you nearly enough. Dutch Surnames . The ‘elusive’ John Weymouth Staines was the second child of Alice Vandebaize and John Staines, born 1777 (his sister Elizabeth was one year older). This list contains English versions of Dutch names that I or visitors of this site found in their own research. Do you need a genealogist in the Netherlands to help you with your research? There are some references elsewhere to a James Staines b1831 military service 1845-1854 Royal Navy but then there are more than one with this birth date and points to some involvement in the Crimean War. Please read what Yvette can do for you. So it is looking like one out of the the four John Staines (1777, 1780-81 born outside Bethnal Green, 1783 and 1783) could have died before reaching marriageable age. Also beyond a 2nd Cousin match there is a chance, 10%, 20%, 40% etc that the estimation isn’t actually a match. Hi Ken There appear to be a couple of other families who may be brothers with similar preferences for first names in or around the same area who may or may not be related. Do you have contemporary sources to confirm that or is it a family story? In between the two major immigration events in the 16th and 17th centuries are shortly thereafter they moved again to England. What do you think our original name was or do you think we might have been immigrants to Holland before we moved to Canada? In all cases the letter “t” is made up of one downward stroke followed by a horizontal line for the cross. And the right spelling of “De” is Cas: Like most of the one-syllable Dutch names, Cas is super powerful. That should give you an indication of whether he was from the Netherlands or not. Lesley De Groodt, Dear Lesley, in dutch spelling your last name would be spelled as de Groot. At this stage and after more record searching it is apparent that one cannot prove my ancestor John Staines lived in Edward St, or that he married again as a widow to Charlotte Butterworth or that his first wife Alice died between 1815 and 1819. I am hoping that you may be able to help me identify possible Dutch ancestry. 20 Common Australian Surnames and Their Meanings Vanderbilt Surname Meaning and Origin Or so it appears. Being able to look at the actual document is far better than relying on transcribed documents on a computerised search tool. I have also written to the Q&A section of a British genealogy magazine and they are going to try to answer my query in their next edition! (This is interpreted to mean old-French speaking). the pronunciation of Stuyvesant in New York with a ‘long i’ doesn’t surprise me, but, hypothetically, a street in Denver so pronounced would. Van means From. However when looking for Mary Ann, born in 1850/51 there was no trace, maybe Esther did not register her birth. The search result will still contain some data in Dutch, though. The name was eventually transformed into Runyen(s) or Runyan(s). The ‘Y’ indicates whether the person was born in the county in which they are currently residing i.e. I do know the name was originally Roerdinkveldboom but when my ancestors migrated to Wisconsin some dropped the Roerdink and some dropped the Veldboom. It is the mother church of East London and favoured by Huguenot families. In the interim I heard from another descendant who posted an article written by a Luyster descendant and a Cert. So overall I am no further down the road than a low confidence guess and this isn’t going to be any better or any worse than anyone else’s low confidence guesses at the end of the day. That then points to another intermediate refuge. The Minister who presided over the marriage in 1800 in St George the Martyr and in St Mary Islington in 1831 has the same name, but not so at St George in 1819. If so, the orphan chamber may have been involved and orphan chamber records might tell you who the guardians were. But as I have found with other searching and matching quite odd things do and can happen, even with the use of dual names, a grandparents name or earlier surname. Baize is also a textile with Ypres a main centre. Thankyou Adam. In his place is a weaveress living with the family of the second marriage in 1841 in Edward St. Not all death records had a year of birth attached but apparently this one dated 3rd March 1844 (also in Edward St) did and is stated as 1781. , Henry bapt 24 Jun 1838, St Pancras, born 15 May 1838. The history of Dutch given … That is John is a crafty old horse. In some cases Vandersteen may have been anglicised to Staines. My New Jersey grandmother’s last name was Sweetman. All I can find are other versions of “Hogan” from other parts of the world not associated. In that event Charlotte would have been 19-20 years old when she married John Staines who was at least 38 years old. She waited until after he 19th Birthday but he could not? (2) Again, any help would be much appreciated!! Hi Susan, Digital imaging may not capture all of the writing detail and the above relied on zooming in to see the finer detail. There is likely to be some overlap but also areas not covered by the other test house. It implies the first born named Alice and John in this second group did not survive childhood but the parents (John jnr who it appears married another Alice) had a strong preference to have a surviving child each named after them. “Veldboom” literally means “field tree” and probably refers to an old defensive barrier in the area (the ‘boom’ would bar the road). The Jewish family Konijn came originally from Poland and probably changed their name from the city Konin in Poland to the more Dutch sounding Konijn. Many thanks Staines-Vandersteen Dutch French Connection. The only way to prove ancestry like this using DNA would be to exhume and extract DNA from the ancestor and then match to a direct male line using Y-DNA or direct female line using mt-DNA. I had come to the same finding in the last half hour and had prepared this next message. . And that’s a bonus for anyone trying to sort this out. And I have seen on two occasions the devastating effect that a Step Mother with these traits can have on innocent children who have lost their mother. A group of them in Limburg. There is no evidence of any textile making in the Vandebaize family in the 18th century. There are two further replies for 2nd and 3rd of January 2020 under Jill Murray (nee Staines) 5th June 2019 1:08 pm post. It is good to know more exactly where my family is from. This implanted date of birth is added in because it is then used for search purposes as a data element. Yes, the Huguenots came to the Netherlands too, mostly to the province of Zeeland but several families settled in Leiden and Amsterdam too. Correction to groom aspect on last message : To recap it is thought John Weymouth Staines married Alice Westfield in 1800 and had a son James in 1804. For this reason, a single family name can often be found in many different spellings in different documents. It was annexed in 1668 to Louis XIV by the Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle and then captured by the Duke of Marlborough in 1708. The second question is, is the original way to spell it with the “d” or De Groot? My name is Paul Konijn and I live in Belgium. Like many other silk weaving families John Staines’s offspring chose different occupations because work for weavers in the 19th century was impacted by many factors including automation. Eliza’s parents and siblings are recorded as also living in Edward Street in 1841. The ancestors I’m looking for are leendertse Phillip konijn, or conyn…so many different spellings I’ve seen. Most Jews did not have family names before 1811. If so can you give me the details on it please (place, wife’s name)? Was he married in the UK? The patriotic theme is also evident in St Pancras for example James, George and Henry. Therefore his actual date of birth could be 4 years older than stated on the burial record and there is no outsider as such because as a weaver it was John Weymouth Staines who was buried in 1844 and was last living in Edward Street. What happened to the children from his first marriage has not been determined. Steen is originally a name of Scandinavian origin. de Burse who christens his son as Vandeburse in 1599 in England. Some married and stayed thereafter. Pieter and his wife Helena (Huider) sailed for Canada from Liverpool, England on the R.M.S Megantic on October 30, 1920. It suggests John Staines the weaver and Alice Westfield are the parents of what I think is a second group, first born in 1801-1815. Norway 47, France 40, Finland 26, Switzerland 17, Spain 13, Austria 13, Belgium 12 and further down the scale Portugal 1. In the Netherlands are two not blood related families De Groodt. This Census record does not therefore connect upstream to the Huguenot Vandebaize side. However before getting to carried away with it the further back in time and the further removed as a Cousin the greater the risk that it isn’t a match after all, just a coincidental association with a person with a similar name from that person’s family tree. An example of this would be Jan Dirksen, meaning Jan, son of Dirk. What if any spelling variations did he use for his name? So that tends to favour John being more local to Bethnal Green. No other records for witnesses Nazar (Nasar Bassier) or Ann Baise have been found. The 1870 census lists parents’ birthplaces, so be sure to collect the 1870 and later census records for all his children to see what they tell about his place of birth. There is a village called Limbricht in Limburg, but that’s a small village for which it doesn’t make sense to refer to the southern portion. My email address is if you styl have questions. Go to another test house that uses similar techniques and the genetic profile of that subgroup is different. 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